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Post by Dodge on Mar 19, 2012 8:18:17 GMT
This thread should be a very interesting and needed one for all of us in many ways. Only the other week a mate of mine found a rig & leader in a carps mouth that had cracked off in some way. He only caught the fish because it was a 'trallier'. We all find rigs/leaders on the bank that should not even be cast out, yet they are still being made. The first port of call is the angler himself!! They should know what is safe? But some dont!! Then maybe the 2nd port of call should be spot checks by the owners of any given lake. I have stopped using leadcore now. imo its not safe. I now use solar unleaded or korda's new heavy rig tube. On all new leaders we buy it tells us on the packet the safe way to set the leader up! Yet we still find deadly rigs & leaders. I'm not telling anyone how to suck eggs here, but somethings need pointing out for the safety of the carp. My set ups are as follows in this case for elsons....... 15lb subline, its a tough line. imo i would'nt go under that bs because there are many over hanging trees/bushes, weedy area's for the carp to rip the nuts out of it. My leaders are ether solar unleaded in 25lb bs, never lower than that. korda's heavy rig tube with the main line fixed to the swivel with a 5 turn grinner or a grandmax fluorocarbon leader in 25lb bs. I use mcf leadclips on all of the above and imo the best there is for weedy waters and i will never have anything like shot or putty on after the clip or sleeve. Hooklinks i use will never be under 20lb bs, be it braid, coated braid or mono. All my knots will be wet'ed down. The rig end will be a combi rig........ Korda IQ2 as the stiff end in 20lb with 25lb supernatural supple bit. all fix by an albright knot. If weed is really thick then i would swap the 20lb IQ for mouth trap in 25lb bs and use the 50lb arma-kord braid for the soft supple bit. If ive missed anything then let me know, because its good for me and everyone else Infact i'd like you to point anything out to me
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 10:44:00 GMT
Some interesting points Dodge..
Firslty there is NO safe rig......end of conversation...plastic baits should be banned...as they will get picked up time after time...
leadcore like anyother leader is as safe as it will get, its the person using the material that is "normally" at fault..
Youve swapped leadcore for Solars unleaded..?...whats the difference...i know Solars material hasnt actually got any lead in it, but the lead is not the problem, its the material that coats the lead...!!!
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Post by Dodge on Mar 19, 2012 11:16:17 GMT
Im going to tell the truth now joss because there will be people reading this then go fishing.........................I made the swap from leaded leadcore to unleaded because it hugs the lake bed better. imo normal leadcore is to stiff to do this. I would guess that alot of people think its the lead inside leadcore thats the problem!!!! Joss, for myself and the others reading this, can you tell us more about the material that coats the lead that you say is the problem? Something else i feel that needs to be looked at is this............ One of the rules for stanwick says 'NO FIXED LEADS' Now i know what this means, but i bet some don't! Now if i was to walk round mallard or swan and ask some of the younger anglers "Can you show me a fix lead set up" I'd like to think that 100% of them could do so. But if there is just one that cant then imo thats one dead fish on the way. I feel joss that out of you and me, you are in a far more better postion to tell us all what a fixed lead is. Unless they read it in a mag or see it on a dvd, there is nothing on this forum explaining what a fixed lead is! I know if any anglers dont know, then all they have to do is ask one of the owners that walk the waters. But some dont like to ask for what ever reason
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 14:35:25 GMT
Im going to tell the truth now joss because there will be people reading this then go fishing.........................I made the swap from leaded leadcore to unleaded because it hugs the lake bed better. imo normal leadcore is to stiff to do this. I would guess that alot of people think its the lead inside leadcore thats the problem!!!! Joss, for myself and the others reading this, can you tell us more about the material that coats the lead that you say is the problem? Something else i feel that needs to be looked at is this............ One of the rules for stanwick says 'NO FIXED LEADS' Now i know what this means, but i bet some don't! Now if i was to walk round mallard or swan and ask some of the younger anglers "Can you show me a fix lead set up" I'd like to think that 100% of them could do so. But if there is just one that cant then imo thats one dead fish on the way. I feel joss that out of you and me, you are in a far more better postion to tell us all what a fixed lead is. Unless they read it in a mag or see it on a dvd, there is nothing on this forum explaining what a fixed lead is! I know if any anglers dont know, then all they have to do is ask one of the owners that walk the waters. But some dont like to ask for what ever reason So if i get this right...you have swapped your normal leadcore to Solar for a fishing perspective as opposed to a safety one..? The lead inside the "leadcore" is merely to give it weight....NOT strength..thats the job of the out woven coating....there lays all the strength in it..leadwire is VERY easy to snap....sneeze and it gone..!! A "fixed" lead is exactly what it states....a lead that is Fixed..is actually fixed and cannot be freed from your line....ie with a knot/stop behind the tail rubber...therefore should you get a take, snap off, the lead cannot pull free from the carp....teathering is only a matter of time. In my veiw..the below is one of the safest systems you can use
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 14:50:32 GMT
Basically...i take a few inches of leadcore...pull out the lead and Splice on a swivel at one end and splice a loop at the other end to be tied onto your mainline.....the swivel is pushed into the front of the in line (as per normal) and instead of the line (leadcore) going the centre of the in line lead insert, pass it over the outside of the lead, place a tail rubber on the leadcore over the leacore and push onto the insert.........
this is a fail safe lead dropping system....on the take.
NOW...should you get a crack off/snapped off etc whilst playing the fish...there will be NO lead being dragged around to further snag the fish off, just 3 inches of leadcore and what ever line you have been snapped off.......hence why i say NO rig is 100% safe.
the reason i use a short bit of stripped out leadcore is so taht should i cast ontop sharp gravel, the leadcore will not get damaged like normal mono or fluro would do.
hope that all makes a bit of sense
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 14:52:31 GMT
I forgot.........If you cannot SPLICE a loop...then DO NOT use leadcore or the Solar un leaded....there lays the danger....its bloody dangerous and if it were my fishery...and i caught anyone using it....they would be banned for life......a carp is worth more than anythin....especially the price of a day ticket and the risk of chucking someone off and getting slagged off for looking after the fishery.
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 14:59:43 GMT
with end rig attached....its accounted for more fish than i care to remember
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 15:13:17 GMT
I also use the "Multi Rig"..or "Jonny Mac" rig, which ever you prefer to call it
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 15:17:57 GMT
We were filmed the other month for March isue of Carptv...gary done the bait talk... and i showed them how to catch them....ahhaha
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Post by Dash on Mar 19, 2012 15:23:21 GMT
Basically...i take a few inches of leadcore...pull out the lead and Splice on a swivel at one end and splice a loop at the other end to be tied onto your mainline.....the swivel is pushed into the front of the in line (as per normal) and instead of the line (leadcore) going the centre of the in line lead insert, pass it over the outside of the lead, place a tail rubber on the leadcore over the leacore and push onto the insert......... this is a fail safe lead dropping system....on the take. NOW...should you get a crack off/snapped off etc whilst playing the fish...there will be NO lead being dragged around to further snag the fish off, just 3 inches of leadcore and what ever line you have been snapped off.......hence why i say NO rig is 100% safe. the reason i use a short bit of stripped out leadcore is so taht should i cast ontop sharp gravel, the leadcore will not get damaged like normal mono or fluro would do. hope that all makes a bit of sense I am currently favouring the inline drop off system, it's miles more effective (in my opinion) than any lead 'safety' clip!! I didn't even think of the fact that the line could get damaged as its over the lead...... Maybe your idea is the best or grooving a channel down the out side of the lead may also be an idea (like the Avid leads). I will be moving all of my rigs to either helicopter style on lead core or inline drop offs..... Used right they're probably as safe as you can get!!??
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 15:25:56 GMT
sorry......Dash...The Avid Groved leads dont make a scrap of difference....but if your happy spending silly money on leads, and your happy with it then carry on...but (correct me if im wrong) at £1.20 a lead...far to expensive for a little grove.
the line gets damaged where the swivel is not along the length of the lead...
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Post by Dash on Mar 19, 2012 15:30:38 GMT
sorry......Dash...The Avid Groved leads dont make a scrap of difference....but if your happy spending silly money on leads, and your happy with it then carry on...but (correct me if im wrong) at £1.20 a lead...far to expensive for a little grove. the line gets damaged where the swivel is not along the length of the lead... ha ha. I've not bought any, was just a comment...... Surely the line tucks inside the groove though, thus its less likely than a non grooved lead to damage the line on the bottom of the lake??? Either way the concept is as safe as you can be..... And I'm particularly hot on rig safety.... Even more so after 'saving' a tethered carp a few weeks back!!
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 15:31:38 GMT
forget the groves...save ya money mate....
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Post by Dash on Mar 19, 2012 15:34:13 GMT
forget the groves...save ya money mate.... you think John Payne will groove them out for free?? Ha ha. I will definately be looking at using your idea mate!! (providing you've not copyrighted it!!) ;-)
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Post by poacherbaits midlands on Mar 19, 2012 15:40:41 GMT
you could always ask him...but seriously......dont fall for stuff like that....if they were 60p a lead id say got for it...but im not into getting I disagree ripped for tackle
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